Global VP SFP Digital Audit – Sharon Kavanagh-Banks

00:01:59 [Maya]

Exactly. So, how exactly did you end up in the finance sector?  Can you tell me about maybe an anecdote that explains how you ended up where you are today?

00:02:07 [Sharon]

It was almost accidental.  I originally started university studying politics and history, but I know it has had a passion for finance.  At the end of that degree, I decided to go study finance and taxation.  And it’s a very pressurized world.  I was working really long hours.  I had just met the man who was going to become my husband, and I decided that I needed a bit of time out just to see where I was going, what was the plan for my career.  So, I took a few weeks out and decided to take a very junior admin role just to get my head together.  And I took an admin role in the field group in Ireland, and after a couple of weeks, they realized where my expertise lies, or lay, and they then promoted me up through the finance ranks.  And then actually, I stayed there for almost 13 years.  So, I moved from finance to marketing to products.  I got to experience all the different facets of the business.  It was an accidental journey, but then it became a passion for me.

00:03:09 [Maya]

Very interesting.  It’s funny that you said you studied politics and history, because I also studied politics and history.

00:03:16 [Sharon]

It’s funny.  And for me, it’s all about learning.  It doesn’t matter what you’re studying or what you’re learning.  You’re learning about the world.  You’re learning about people.  And you can end up in a very, very different direction than you first started.  So, it’s a very interesting journey for me.

00:03:26 [Maya]

Exactly.  So, would you say, I guess you would say then that your educational path was maybe non-traditional, if you look at the people that are kind of surrounding you today in finance, or would you say that it was a relatively traditional one?

00:03:39 [Sharon]

I would say it’s relatively traditional for me.  I finished high school; I went on to university.  And to be honest, most of the people that I went to university with, no matter what we studied, we actually all ended up in very different careers than what originally started out.  But again, it always comes back to me.  For just education, education and life, you can end up running the world, you don’t.  There is no degree that prepares you for that.  So, I think everything that you learn along the way shows you different paths, different directions to take.

00:04:08 [Maya]

Exactly.  Can you tell me a little bit more generally about an anecdote that you would say has marked your career?

00:04:15 [Sharon]

I suppose if I look at my career to date, I suppose working through the economic changes that happened and the crash that happened in the early 2000s.  I was running on a treadmill every day with work.  It was long hours, it was raising two children, two small children.  I was also battling an illness and I just thought there has to be more to life.  And there were so many problems that I saw within the industry that I was in inefficiencies and just things that could be done better to make people’s working life better and not be so pressurized.  So, with the downturn that happened in the economy, I was talking to my boss when I was saying there’s lots of things we would like to change.  And he phoned me one day, he was in an airport lounge traveling for work and he said why didn’t we just set out on a path and try and fix this ourselves? And at the time the group were planning redundancies. I wasn’t part of the redundancy.  It meant I would have longer hours doing more work for the people that had left.  And I just thought if I don’t change something now, I never will.  So that phone call from that airport lounge changed my life. I left my job and started a company at my kitchen table.

00:05:30 [Maya]

Interesting. I think that there are probably lots of people out there that have to make the decision.  Should they make or take a leap of faith when they’re offered an opportunity like that?  What kind of advice would you give them if they’re trying to think through whether or not it’s the right choice to make for them?

00:05:46 [Sharon]

I think if you find yourself on that path, if you are really questioning what you’re doing and the value you’re bringing to the world, I think it really is a case of be brave.  It doesn’t always mean stepping out and starting your own company, but it could be making that big decision to change your career path, change industry.  I think you really have to assess that we only get one shot on this earth.  I think you’ve got to enjoy it.  You’ve got to be fulfilled.  You’ve got to have time for yourself.  No one will thank you in your company if all you did was work because you’re not bringing your best self.  I think be brave.  Step out.  Make a change.  Change is not bad.  It’s not good.  It’s just a change.

00:06:30 [Maya]

Good advice.  I like that.  You have a LinkedIn bio, like almost everyone today has, and on your LinkedIn bio you claim that simple and non-negotiable standards of living are key to you.  Can you tell me a little bit more about what exactly that means and whether there’s an event that kind of put things into perspective for you?

00:06:53 [Sharon]

For me, in the last 12 years, I’ve battled cancer three times. So, I think that brings a very different perspective and I count it as one of the best things that ever happened to me.  As distressing as it was for my family and friends, for me, it gave me that jolt that said life has got to be more because it could be very short.  So, for me, it was bringing it back to basics.  What is the most important thing to me?  As I said, beginning.  Be kind, have integrity, try and make the world a better place, try and raise my children so they see that too.  So yeah, I think that event changed my life and I’m glad it happened when I was so young because it did mean that I have the next, hopefully, 30, 40 years to live out that promise.

00:07:44 [Maya]

And how would you define yourself if you had to think about defining yourself in a certain way or using certain words? What are the ones that you would choose?

00:07:52 [Sharon]

I suppose an ever-improving human. I think that’s what I strive to be. Every morning I get up, I try to make sure that the day is filled with things that either improve my life or improve the life of others.  And it’s a constant journey. There is no end. The destination is clear, but it’s a very long journey. But yeah, I think taking all other labels out.  I am a mom. I am a wife.  I am all of those things.  But for me, I’m human and try to be the best human I can be so that when I go to bed at night, I sleep easy.

00:08:33 [Maya]

What do you like to do when you’re not working?

00:08:38 [Sharon]

I have two children and they’re in their teenage years now. So, we love to travel.  And again, on that journey of self-improvement, my husband and I try to expose them to as many things as possible.  So, we try to travel a lot.  Expose them to new cultures, new countries, beautiful art, architecture.  And for that, again, I like to show them places where the world hasn’t maybe evolved or some of the things that are slightly more negative in the world, because I want them to see that.  I want them to maybe start their own path to see how they could make it better.  How could they help?  How could they reach out?  What could they do to make the world in the next 50, 60, 70 years that they’re better?  So, we try to expose them to lots of things.

My husband’s a professional musician, so music is all around our house and we all play instruments.  So sometimes just to spend time together with the children, I will all take out our instruments and we’ll play together.  We have a lot of friends who are in the industry, so they’ll all come over and we’ll sing songs and just make music together.  So, my cello and my piano are probably two of my favorite things next to my family.  And I don’t sleep an awful lot. I try to always self-improve, and I just don’t sleep a lot.  So, I tend to read probably two or three books a week.

00:09:57 [Maya]

What would you recommend to people listening?  What are you reading now?

00:10:00 [Sharon]

I try to read three different types each week if I can.  I try to read maybe a self-improvement book or a guide.  At the moment, I’m reading Richard Dawkins just to understand a little bit more about different perspectives on the world and our creation.  I do like, don’t get me wrong, I do like a good fiction book where I can get lost.  And to be honest, it tends to be, most of the books that I read tend to be historical.  So, I do like historical novels, to be honest, from France.  And then I try to read language books.  I speak a little bit of French, a little bit of German, a little bit of Italian.  I try to improve on those.  So, I’m always trying to read, admittedly, probably children’s books in those languages, but to try and improve those.

00:10:46 [Maya]

That’s interesting.  I mean, usually or oftentimes people who do a lot of reading also do writing. Are you working on something that might be stories or books or maybe an autobiography?

00:11:07 [Sharon]

It’s funny you say that.  I wouldn’t call it an autobiography.  I hope it’s never published.  But I have kept a journal since I was about 10.  Admittedly, I grew up in the era pre-computers and pre-internet.  So, it was all written down in diaries.  But I have continued that.  And for me, it’s a legacy I want to leave my daughter.  I suppose, especially having been ill, I want to make sure that she knew enough about me if I was gone early so that she would have my life lessons and either follow some or don’t follow some of them.  So, I continuously journal.  I journal my experiences, my thoughts, my hopes, my dreams. I journal pretty much every night.

00:11:51 [Maya]

I’m sure it’s fascinating.  Do you find that the journaling also helps you with your professional life as well?

00:12:01 [Sharon]

Very much so.

00:12:02 [Maya]

Thinking through problems and figuring out like non-traditional maybe solutions or even just having the time to write things down and reflect rather than just being on a call or writing out emails and things like that.

00:12:12 [Sharon]

It’s exactly the word you’ve used, reflection. Very often when I’m journaling and I journal out my day.  Sometimes then I realize I could have done that better.  Or sometimes it’s the problem I was struggling with  I see it in a different perspective because usually I journal at nighttime in bed.  It’s at the end of the day and something comes to me, I go, do you know what? Tomorrow I’m going to do something different.  Tomorrow, I have a solution or something to try.  So, it definitely does.  And sometimes I realize that I made mistakes and by writing those mistakes down means hopefully I don’t make the same mistakes again.

00:12:58 [Maya]

Sharon, so we’ve talked about your background, and you’ve told us a little bit about how you kind of started your career.  Let’s talk a little bit about what you’re doing right now in your work.  You said that you built your company to fix the pain points that you saw and that you encountered as you were working in automotive.  Can you tell me a little bit more about that?  What are some examples of those pain points that you saw?

00:13:22 [Sharon]

In my time with the Fiat group, particularly with brands like Alfa Romeo and Jeep, I noticed a stark contrast in the pace of technological advancements in our products compared to our administrative processes. Our vehicles were evolving rapidly, incorporating technologies that could do everything from interacting with the driver to simplifying daily tasks. However, the processes we used to manage these assets were stuck in the past, unchanged for years.

Despite the clear advancements in vehicle technology, the way we dealt with these assets hadn’t evolved. This discrepancy became even more apparent during economic downturns. While the reporting aspects of the business remained constant, the financial backing and human resources dwindled, leading to inefficient processes and overworked staff. Many tasks were still being done manually, often using just Excel spreadsheets, which I found to be a clear sign that there had to be a more efficient way to work.

Legacy systems, deeply entrenched in our operations, were particularly cumbersome to change due to their scale and the significant investment required. This situation forced us to question whether it was feasible to halt these systems for an upgrade. Meanwhile, the rise of new technologies and the ubiquity of smartphones set a new standard for user experiences, highlighting the inadequacies of our outdated systems.

One of the most glaring inefficiencies was the manual counting of assets, a task that seemed archaic in the digital age. It was not only time-consuming but also less engaging for the employees, particularly in unfavorable weather conditions. This prompted me to digitalize the asset auditing process, which not only streamlined the task but also allowed for better data management and added value to our operations.

Throughout my career, I’ve been driven by a desire to improve the working lives of my colleagues, making their roles more engaging and less focused on mundane tasks like data entry. This motivation led me to tackle some of the most pressing challenges in the automotive industry, always with an eye towards innovation and efficiency.

00:16:55 [Maya]

Okay, you mentioned the data. What are some of the more exciting uses of the kind of data and analytics that you’ve noticed over the past year or even a year and a half? A lot of different things have happened, so what are some of  the things that you’ve noticed that you think are most exciting and are any of those directly applicable to what you’re doing in automotive?

00:17:25 [Sharon]

Indeed, as you’ve mentioned, the pace at which things are evolving is astonishing, and it seems to be accelerating. It’s about staying ahead of the curve, especially with the overwhelming influx of data. It’s crucial to remember that data for the sake of data serves no purpose; it must hold value. What excites me—and I know it might be a source of annoyance for some—is the element of choice we have. Every interaction we have, whether on our phones or laptops, outlines a journey of interests or purchases. When businesses harness this information to deliver content that resonates with us personally, that’s when the real value emerges. Amidst the bombardment of content from every direction, tailored information—be it about finance, cars, or fashion—enhances its relevance and fosters brand loyalty.

However, it’s important to navigate this space cautiously. While leveraging data, we must avoid overwhelming or manipulating individuals. The evolving landscape of AI is thrilling yet demands careful consideration. AI has the potential to automate time-consuming tasks, enriching our lives, but it’s essential to maintain human oversight, especially in sectors like finance and technology. The concern that AI might lead to excessive automation, where humans lose control, is valid. Yet, if we can delegate routine tasks to AI, it could significantly improve our quality of life by freeing up time.

The advancements in technology, such as biometrics, have made everyday tasks more convenient. For example, today, I navigated through my day using just my phone and passport, foregoing the need for paper documents. This convenience extends to payments, communication, and even travel documentation, illustrating the significant strides we’ve made. Nonetheless, it’s vital to tread carefully and consider how far we push the boundaries of technology.

00:20:08 [Maya]

Can you tell a little bit more about your job right now if you don’t mind?

00:20:14 [Sharon]

At this stage my job is in the integration into the Sopra family. I stand one leg in the old company and one leg in the new, so I still have a huge responsibility to integrate my old business into that world, so I still have responsibility for finance, HR, customer engagement, product development, research. So I have a lot to do, but if I was to sum it all up and say what I do I steer a speedboat hitched up to a super tanker, so my job is to be captain of that ship and make the strategic decisions for my business unit.

00:20:57 [Maya]

Can you tell me a little bit about your typical day?

00:21:04 [Sharon]

I don’t have many typical days. They all start off roughly the same. I’m up, it’s an early start about 6:30, get the children, usual somebody has forgotten a lunchbox, and somebody’s forgotten a school bag, so it starts with that.

Then I hit the office and usually what I try to do each morning is just have a catch-up with my local on-site team, just make sure everybody’s okay, what we’re doing for the day or the week ahead any pressing matters. It’s more to see if they’re okay and is there any assistance they need for me to do their job, what are we trying to achieve by the end of the week and is there any way I can help with that.

After that I usually have a couple of meetings and thanks to the world of online meeting I get to talk with my colleagues at a leadership level all across the globe, right the way across the Sopra Banking Software family effectively. That’s where we’re looking at what is the strategy, what are we planning to do, where are we hoping to take the products we have, how are we I suppose assessing our employees, how can we help them, what else do we need to do so. We have a lot of kind of leadership meetings and strategic meetings and that could be planning for the next week, month, year, a couple of years in advance.

Then I get to speak usually once or twice a day with some of our global customers. We have global customers, they’re across various time zones, so my day can either finish at seven or eight or I can go on till 10 or 11 at night.

I travel a lot so depending on the day I could be in Paris at HQ. I could be in the US for a conference. I could be in the UK meeting customers, so there’s no typical day.

The only thing that the end of the week is always important for me, so no matter where I am in the world, it’s the check in with the on-site team and again it’s more just to assess their well-being, how they got on during the week, how they fared, what with the projects they were doing. Just  generally how that we’re very close in a family team, so everybody knows everybody’s children and wives and husbands, so it’s just always making sure that the work and the life is balanced.

00:23:05 [Maya]

You said before that you kind of had one foot in and one foot out, but I want to know a little bit more about the small business that you owned. Basically kind of what it was like to be a small business owner and then maybe we can talk a little bit about the transition.

00:23:24 [Sharon]

My colleague, who was once my boss, and I founded our company right at my kitchen table. In those early days, we spent countless hours there, mapping out our plans and strategies. Being a startup, financial resources were tight, so we relied heavily on the generous support and advice from a network of mentors and advisors rather than financial contributions.

The journey of entrepreneurship is undoubtedly challenging. Transitioning from a stable job with a regular salary to a situation where I had no salary for several years was a significant shift. My priority was always to ensure that my team was compensated first; I took my share last. It involved long nights, persistent efforts to knock on doors, and a continuous search for guidance. We looked up to larger companies, learning from their operations and adapting their successful strategies to our scale.

A turning point came when we no longer had to seek opportunities actively; they started coming to us. A significant player in the industry recognized the value of our product and expressed interest in incorporating it into their ecosystem. This partnership offered us a gateway to a global platform, despite the inherent challenges of integrating into a large organization. As a small business, making quick decisions and pivoting as needed was straightforward, but in a larger setup, the process involved more stakeholders and was consequently slower.

Despite these challenges, the benefits of such a collaboration were undeniable. It provided access to financial resources, global teams, and a broader perspective that sometimes necessitates a shift in strategy for greater success. Most importantly, it offered my dedicated team career growth opportunities, competitive salaries, and the chance to see our product make a global impact.

To me, the product is like a child I’ve nurtured, and the prospect of it helping businesses worldwide is incredibly rewarding. The transition to being part of a larger organization, despite its complexities, has been a worthwhile journey for the growth it has brought to our product, our team, and the businesses we aim to help.

00:27:44 [Maya]

Is there any specific um advice that you would give to people who are thinking about becoming a small business doesn’t have to be particularly in the industry? We’re discussing but just in general things that they should think about in a way before they decide that they want to do that or is it kind of like the run-of-the-mill type of advice that people normally hear? Is there anything maybe really specific that you think that you could bring?

00:28:09 [Sharon]

Reflecting on my journey, looking back at where I started in 2012, there’s so much I’d tell my younger self. First and foremost, I’d stress the importance of being prepared for long nights and the constant presence of work. Unlike a regular job where you clock out and leave your work at the office, owning your own business means there’s no real off switch. The weight of responsibility is heavy, knowing that your decisions directly affect not just the success of your venture but also the livelihoods of any employees you might have.

In the early days, I didn’t fully grasp the magnitude of this responsibility or how much time and effort I’d need to pour into the business. But it’s crucial to be passionate about what you’re doing, whether it’s a product or a service you’re providing. That passion becomes a driving force, akin to the unconditional effort you’d give for your children. It’s about embracing the challenge and being willing to give more than just a hundred percent.

However, amidst all the hard work, it’s vital to carve out time for yourself, to reflect and maintain perspective. It’s easy to get caught up in aspirations of becoming the next big success story, but it’s important to stay grounded and understand your own goals and limitations.

I’ve learned that taking a chance, even at the risk of failure, is far better than not trying at all. The saying that resonates with me the most is that to try is to risk failure, but not trying guarantees it. That, I believe, is the best advice I could offer to anyone stepping into the world of entrepreneurship.

00:30:22 [Maya]

When preparing to launch a startup or embark on a new venture, what are some potential pitfalls to be aware of that might not be immediately obvious, based on your early experiences in starting a business?

00:30:47 [Sharon]

Reflecting on the early stages of my business, maintaining my own perspective and conviction was crucial amidst the sea of advice and skepticism. Many people offered their take on how things should be done, often drawing from their own experiences, which didn’t necessarily align with my vision. I vividly remember pitching our initial product idea and being dismissed with remarks like “Don’t be silly, nobody would ever buy that.” It was a pivotal moment where I had to trust my instincts and the deep understanding I had of the problem I aimed to solve.

Another significant aspect was navigating the financial side of starting a business. Money is a fundamental resource, and how you manage it can greatly impact your venture’s trajectory. From the outset, we opted to bootstrap, funding the business with our own money. This approach isn’t for everyone, but it was a deliberate choice to retain control over the business’s direction. In the startup world, there’s often a rush to secure as much investment as possible to accelerate growth. However, this can sometimes lead to diluting your control and potentially compromising your original vision, as investors bring their own expectations and priorities.

So, in essence, the key traps to be wary of include losing sight of your unique vision amidst external opinions and understanding the right timing and terms for financial investments to ensure they align with your goals and values.

00:32:15 [Maya]

Certainly, could you share a bit more about why you decided to sell your company? You mentioned a moment when you realized it was the right time, providing some insights into your decision. However, are there any specific, pivotal reasons that convinced you it was indeed better to sell and integrate with another company, rather than continuing independently?

00:32:39 [Sharon]

Given the rapid digitization of the world, we recognized that staying independent wouldn’t allow us to grow as quickly as needed. The risk of competitors overtaking us was real, and all our efforts could have been in vain, making it crucial to sell at that point. Moreover, the acquisition process coincided with the uncertainty brought by the COVID-19 pandemic, heightening the sense that it was a now-or-never moment. We were concerned that missing this opportunity could mean our product never reaching its full potential. Our guiding principle was ensuring the product we built achieved its utmost potential.

I was fortunate to have had prior interactions with individuals from the Sopra Steria family, having worked alongside them and met at conferences. This familiarity gave me confidence in their ethos and culture, which mirrored our own. Selling to a company that shared our values meant that our product and team would be well-integrated and continue to thrive within a larger, supportive family.

00:33:57 [Maya]

Could you share the objectives you have now for what you built previously and how you’re integrating it into Sopra Banking Software? Where do you envision it heading in the next two to five years, and what are your specific goals?

00:34:09 [Sharon]

Certainly, our main objective is to leverage the global stage, as our product is designed to be geographically agnostic. It’s accessible worldwide, translated into every language, and user-friendly. We’re thrilled to see customers deriving real value from it. Prior to joining Sopra Banking Software, we had a product roadmap, and now, with their backing and support, we have the opportunity to further develop our existing product and introduce new ones. My goal is to continue innovating, challenging existing ideas, and advancing our product. Equally important is to acknowledge and reward my team for their hard work. I want them to see the impact of their contributions and feel excited about our future direction.

00:35:09 [Maya]

Could you reflect on how your vision for your business, while it was still small, compares to the reality you’re experiencing now within Sopra Banking Software? Is the current situation closely aligned with your initial expectations, or have there been notable differences? How would you describe the comparison?

00:35:24 [Sharon]

The transition from my own company to being part of Sopra Banking Software has introduced some changes. Initially, our focus was solely on one product, but now we’re dealing with multiple products and increased attention to each. This shift has led to a significant increase in the number of meetings, which I consider a downside. In the past, meetings required travel, which naturally limited their frequency due to cost considerations. However, with the shift to online meetings, there’s a tendency for calendars to become overly packed. It’s common to move from one call to another with little break in between. While online meetings reduce costs, they also seem to encourage scheduling meetings for the sake of it, often without a clear purpose or outcome. This can lead to a cycle of meetings that generate more meetings, rather than actionable results. So, while there are benefits to being part of a larger organization with more resources, the increase in meetings without clear objectives is a challenge I’ve observed.

00:36:38 [Maya]

Certainly! We’ve discussed your current role, and I’d like to delve deeper into the topic of women in finance. Could you share your perspective on the presence and impact of women in the financial technology sector?

00:36:52 [Sharon]

It’s becoming more common to encounter women in the finance and technology sectors, although they often don’t strictly categorize their roles as being in “finance” or “technology.” The trend is shifting towards a focus on solutions and offerings. Women are increasingly drawn to this approach, leveraging their natural inclination for problem-solving—ranging from resolving conflicts at home to navigating disputes in the boardroom. This emphasis on creating solutions is facilitating women’s entry into various sectors, moving beyond traditional definitions and towards a more integrated view of contributing through solution-oriented roles.

00:37:43 [Maya]

That’s an intriguing point. Despite the increasing presence of women in finance and technology, the numbers still seem relatively low. What do you think are the main barriers or reasons for this underrepresentation of women in the sector?

00:37:56 [Sharon]

There are several factors contributing to the lower representation of women in the finance and technology sectors. The industry is perceived as challenging, largely due to its long-standing male dominance. This can deter women, especially considering the significant time investment required to reach senior levels, which often coincides with family-rearing years. The struggle to balance career advancement with family responsibilities, such as maternity leave and the need for flexible working hours, can be daunting without sufficient recognition or support. Additionally, the gender pay gap, which is only now being widely acknowledged, has likely been a deterrent. The lack of female leaders in senior positions also plays a role; without visible role models, the path to these roles can seem more intimidating. However, increasing the number of women in high-level positions could serve as inspiration and encourage more women to pursue careers in these sectors.

00:39:18 [Maya]

Indeed, the male-dominated nature of the industry has been a longstanding tradition, but there’s hope for more balance in the future. Navigating such an environment requires a deliberate approach. How do you assert your presence and make your voice heard? Are there specific strategies you employ, or do you find that being authentic to yourself and adapting as you go is the best course of action?

00:39:41 [Sharon]

It sounds like your approach is centered on authenticity and self-confidence, without placing emphasis on gender. You focus on your abilities and capabilities, striving to excel based on merit and your human qualities rather than any gender-specific identity. This perspective suggests that if you find yourself in an environment where your talents and contributions are recognized and valued, it’s the right fit for you, indicating a healthy, supportive workplace culture.

00:40:03 [Maya]

What do you think if we will be able to move towards having more women in this sector? What kind of an advantage that would bring to everybody as a whole?

00:40:16 [Sharon]

You’re highlighting a crucial point: diversity in all its forms enriches discussions, enhances understanding, and minimizes conflicts. This principle applies universally, beyond just industry boundaries. By embracing diversity—including gender, religion, race, and sexual orientation—we gain a broader, more nuanced understanding of the world. This diversity is not just beneficial; it’s essential, especially when our goal is to serve a diverse clientele. If our decision-making teams lack this variety, we risk overlooking the unique needs and challenges of the people we aim to serve. Recognizing and incorporating diverse voices in leadership and decision-making roles is key to truly understanding and meeting the varied needs of our global community.

00:41:05 [Maya]

Reflecting on your experiences, have you encountered any obstacles or challenges that you feel were related to being a woman, whether in terms of how people interact with you or the opportunities you’ve been offered or perhaps missed?

00:41:28 [Sharon]

Absolutely, throughout my career, I’ve encountered specific instances that underscored gender stereotypes, particularly when my illness, breast cancer, was perceived primarily as a “female” issue. This not only drew attention to my gender but also often resulted in a response more of pity than of seeing it as a health challenge anyone could face. This experience really brought to light the gender-based perceptions that exist. Moreover, in my professional journey, the stereotypical views regarding gender roles have been evident. For example, when attending meetings, there’s been noticeable surprise when people realize that I am the project lead, not the secretary, and the male colleague with me is actually my intern. Such stereotyping can, at times, impact one’s confidence.

00:42:13 [Maya]

In recent discussions, there’s been a lot of focus on how minorities, including women, navigate their careers while dealing with imposter syndrome. Have you experienced this in your own career, and do you have any advice for those who might be struggling with these feelings?

00:42:44 [Sharon]

I resonate with the concept of imposter syndrome, particularly in the realm of professional life where moments of doubt and uncertainty can surface. However, my approach to imposter syndrome centers on self-awareness. To me, being self-aware means acknowledging that I don’t possess all the answers, that there are moments I require assistance or advice. The true imposter, in my view, would be someone who pretends to have no need for help.

Embracing self-awareness allows me to confront and overcome feelings of inadequacy. By admitting that I don’t know everything, I effectively disarm the power that imposter syndrome can hold over me. This admission, rather than diminishing my confidence, actually enhances it. It empowers me to openly seek guidance, to ask, “How would you handle this?” This approach not only fosters personal growth but also cultivates a supportive and collaborative environment.

00:43:36 [Maya]

You’ve mentioned facing certain prejudices in your career. Could you share more examples that our listeners might find relatable? Additionally, what advice would you offer on confronting and overcoming these obstacles?

00:44:06 [Sharon]

Reflecting on the moments in my career where I’ve felt pressured to conform to stereotypes, I’ve always leaned on the principle of humanity. Instead of assigning blame to those who might be enforcing or perpetuating these stereotypes, I choose forgiveness and education. My approach isn’t about confrontation; it’s grounded in the wisdom my father imparted to me: “Raise your arguments, not your voice.” This means engaging in constructive dialogue and education.

When facing situations where there seems to be an underlying gender or minority agenda, I believe in the power of respectfully calling attention to it. It’s about having the courage to make a suggestion or highlight an issue but doing so with respect and understanding. Often, these biases aren’t intentional, and by opening up a respectful conversation, it can lead to moments of realization and change. So, my advice is to be brave, call out what you see, but do so with kindness and the goal of education. This approach not only fosters a positive environment but can also lead to meaningful change.

00:45:17 [Maya]

Do you believe in the concept often referred to as ‘positive discrimination,’ like quotas, to officially support minorities, including women, people of different races, socioeconomic backgrounds, or sexual orientations? Do you see this as beneficial?

00:45:47 [Sharon]

Your concerns about positive discrimination, such as quotas, resonate with the broader debate on the topic. The idea of a meritocracy, where individuals advance based on their merit rather than characteristics like gender or race, is indeed appealing and fair in principle. The concern that quotas might lead to perceptions of tokenism and undermine the achievements of those appointed due to such measures is valid. It raises the question of whether achievements are recognized as a result of genuine capability or a fulfilment of a quota, potentially diluting respect and perceived competence.

However, as you pointed out, examples from countries like Norway demonstrate that when implemented thoughtfully, quotas can effect significant and rapid changes in the representation of women in senior positions, thereby altering the narrative. The key seems to be in the implementation of meaningful quotas that are not merely tokenistic but aimed at genuinely transforming the composition of leadership to reflect greater diversity and inclusion.

The transitional nature of quotas is an important aspect, serving as a temporary measure to disrupt the status quo and pave the way for a more inclusive and diverse professional environment. Once diversity becomes more normalized and equitable opportunities are established, the hope is that the reliance on quotas would diminish as a natural diversity balance is achieved.

It’s about striking a balance between ensuring opportunities are based on merit while also acknowledging and addressing the systemic barriers that have historically limited access for certain groups. Meaningful quotas, in this sense, are not about lowering standards but about widening the lens through which potential and merit are recognized and nurtured.

00:47:33 [Maya]

So what kind of advice would you give to a woman who’s maybe just starting out her career? She’s just graduated from university. She’s gone through her first internship. She’s landed her first job.  She’s starting tomorrow. What are the, what is something, a piece of advice that you would give her to kind of that she should keep in mind?  For maybe the short term and the midterm and the long term?

00:47:57 [Sharon]

Starting your career with integrity is paramount. From the onset, make a commitment to yourself to uphold your values and principles, irrespective of the challenges you may face, including gender-based ones. Maintaining your integrity is crucial for building respect and credibility in your professional life.

In the short term, focus on establishing a strong foundation of respect and trust with your colleagues. Your initial interactions and the way you handle your responsibilities will set the tone for your professional relationships and reputation.

As you progress into the medium and long term, remember that you don’t have to sacrifice your personal goals or aspects of your life, such as starting a family, for your career. The recent shift towards more flexible work arrangements, accelerated by the Covid-19 pandemic, has shown that it’s possible to balance professional aspirations with personal commitments. Embrace the opportunities for flexible working hours and remote work to create a harmonious balance that aligns with your priorities.

Ultimately, keep your focus on what truly matters to you. Define your own success based on your values and goals, rather than conforming to external expectations. If something is important to you, you’ll find a way to integrate it into your life, ensuring that you don’t have to compromise your aspirations or well-being.

00:48:54 [Maya]

Well, you give such good advice.

00:48:56 [Sharon]

I don’t know. I think, I think sometimes you just need time to think about these things. I think or journal about them.

00:49:04 [Maya]

Can you share about the role models who have significantly influenced your career path, drawing from your own experiences?

00:49:20 [Sharon]

First and foremost, I have to give credit to my mom and dad. They epitomize the ideal balance that I’ve seldom seen elsewhere, and considering I’m approaching 50, their roles during the ’70s and ’80s might have seemed typical for that era. Yet, in our household, the dynamics were anything but typical. With five of us kids, my mom took charge of catering and coordinating school activities, alongside being the primary disciplinarian. My dad, despite his full-time job, shared household duties equally, contributing to cooking and cleaning without adhering to traditional gender roles. Their mutual respect and readiness to support each other set a powerful example for me, making them incredible mentors who continue to offer guidance and occasionally, gentle critiques, given I’m still their daughter.

Professionally, I’ve been fortunate to have several influential male mentors. But looking beyond personal connections to celebrated leaders, figures like Christine Lagarde and Angela Merkel stand out. Their ability to hold and excel in positions of global influence as women is immensely inspiring and serves as a potent symbol of empowerment for the younger generation. On the male side, Richard Branson is someone I admire, not for his wealth or entrepreneurial success per se, but for his progressive approach to treating employees, people, and the planet. His openness and generosity in sharing his perspectives are qualities I believe we should all aspire to emulate.

00:51:08 [Maya]

You’ve mentioned several ambitious individuals. How do you define ambition based on their qualities? What aspects of their ambition do you think others could emulate in their careers, personal lives, or overall life goals?

00:51:41 [Sharon]

Ambition is a deeply personal concept for me. It’s rooted in my core principle of striving to become a better individual. To me, having ambition means continuously pushing oneself to progress and to enhance not just one’s own life, but also the lives of others. Ambition doesn’t have a finish line; it’s not about reaching a destination and then resting on your laurels. It’s about constantly asking, “What’s next? How can I further improve? How can I make a positive impact?” When I reflect on the role models and mentors I admire, I notice a common thread: none of them reached a point of complacency. They’re characterized by perpetual movement, constant evolution, and ongoing enhancement. That, in essence, is what ambition signifies to me.

00:52:30 [Maya]

Considering your thoughts on ambition, there must be days when you feel tired. How do you handle those days?

00:52:42 [Sharon]

There are certainly days when I feel utterly exhausted, days when it seems like I’ve expended every ounce of my energy. Yet, even on these days, the concept of ambition remains relevant. Ambition isn’t always about grand achievements or monumental successes. Sometimes, it’s about the smaller victories—simply managing to get up, getting through the day, ensuring the kids are off to school, or helping out my parents with an issue. It’s about acknowledging and appreciating the effort it takes to accomplish these everyday tasks. Ambition, in this sense, is about making the most of each day, no matter how big or small the achievements might be. So yes, there are times when ambition is as simple as finding the time to relax and immerse myself in a Netflix series. Even carving out time for such moments can be an act of ambition.

00:53:27 [Maya]

Absolutely, finding the time is key. Thank you, Sharon, for such a stimulating discussion. I truly hope our listeners found it as engaging as I did. This conversation has given me plenty to ponder and journal about. So, a big thank you for being with us.